In my opinion, a combination of Liliths skill tree, her action skill, and some of the weapons in the game give her a bit of an edge over the other characters, and I don't think thats fair. They already dwarfed her a little in the new patch (by lessening the power of daze effects) so I think it would be unfair to dwarf her any more. I think the other characters should be given small bonuses in whatever new patch they make, just to bring everyone up to par. Your thoughts?
Actually no players are overpowered, because they each have a different coded "difficulty" level Lilith, having the hardest difficulty is more likely to encounter toughes enemies like brutes and badasses. Second hardest os Mordecai, third is Brick, 4th Roland.Sugarrnuttzz 20:03, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Gunslinga 01:35, March 25, 2010 (UTC)Gunslinga
so what if shes powerfull until shes outa ammo different playing styles what am i talking about what i mean is shell will run outa ammo as quiqk as a bunny on crack but lets sayroland can just keep on drilling ie crawmerax for as long as hes alive see balanceSpRaYiN LeAd01:48, March 25, 2010 (UTC) Insert non-formatted text here
its true, mordecai has some of the best accuracy and highest crit damage in the game but he has the lowest health and lowest shield capacity, and you cant snipe every where in the game. and brick, well he's just insane. Hellz Lips 02:59, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
It's true, the classes are quite balanced. However, Lilith doesn't always run out of ammo quickly. Putting points into Phasewalk, Blackout, Phase Strike, etc., you can Phasewalk into some enemies, kill one with a Phase Strike, daze all of them with the Phase Blast, put one (1) revolver round in another guy's head, and bam, you can do it over again. If you rely only on SMGs, and you don't get a Mercenary COM with ammo regen, that's your choice (albeit not a very good one), and then she'll run out of ammo quickly. -- 03:46, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
I agree with Claptrap, pretty much all the characters have their unique advantages, some personally more amusing for each player, but none-the-less, fair. Brick has the most health but has an up close and personal only skill, so you really have to get into the fray to get good use of the skill. Soldier has massive clips and ammo regeneration, and his skill can be set up to take on one side of enemies while he can turn to work on other enemies. Lilith has incredible elemental damage, and though she doesn't have much else useful on her besides being great with SMGs, her skill makes her capable of getting out of any hairy situation, quick. last but not least Mordecai is great long range with snipers, and good with revolvers at close range, and his skill is great for taking on a large group of enemies at once, as well as for getting a lot of loot drops in the process (ie; money, health, etc.). If I were to say any characters are unbalanced I would have to go with Mordecai simply because his Trespass ability makes mince-meat of any enemie with a shield that's intended for higher damage or a shock weapon to bring down. I think the trespass ability should probably be shrunk down a little bit, but I'm not complaining, it's good as is, and pretty much all the characters have their own ups and downs, you just have to figure out what's best for you and your playing style. To say the least, I don't think Lilith is anywhere near overpowerful. - K1ng 04:54, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
Only thing that pisses me off is that, post a bit of wiping-out-bandits-with-a-Mulciber fun, my Mordecai (GSlinger/Rogue, none of this pansy trespass malarkey) toon's Preferred Manufacturer has always been Tediore, even though I went through ten levels killing bad guys with nothing but my Jakobs sniper/revolver. Stupid no. of bullets fired rule:I want a wooden machine gun dammit. Meh, I guess until Preferred Manufacturer actually does something (oh, there's the DLC3 class mod thing I suppose) it doesn't really matter. IMonkoii 08:57, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
The only class i think that is kinda underpowered is brick, but that could be that i cannot handle the down in the dirty berserker style, especially considering mords survivor mod can equal into a better tank then brick, 9 rioutus remedy+macho shield+18 hp regen can easily turn into "unlimited" hp
The only reasons i prefer to play as lilith most times is the maliwan loyalty and the merc mod, both with a panacea shield and the ability to abuse the air as cover is what makes lilith best imhoDemonique 11:41, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
I must be unique in the way I like to play Lilith then. I like to use her as a markswoman?? (Did I get that right? lol) with a good Specter Mod she blows everyone away in snipping except Mordecai. She has Smgs to back her up instead of revolvers and High Elemental Effects. Take a look http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Lilith_Build_-_KooUK
I normally have her carry an Orion, Dahl Penetrator, Tsunami and Helfire. There really isn't anithing up on the platue that can stand in her way.
I am the Keeper of Useless Knowledge ~ Proven Mayhem 12:40, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
The one reason Lilith is a bit imba is because you can go into phasewalk, and before your out can have the cooldown for it over already, so if u have the right enemies around you can just do continuous phasewalking pretty much, added with the health regen is a bit crazy TreeJs 15:39, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
Hold up. I feel compelled to post a message like the oneSpRaYiN LeAd did. Here it goes. Ya I mean you know how like shell her be do that thing in the phasewalk so if you follow me then a will do what Roland was and some will different playing styles what am i talking about what i mean. Ya know? different playing styles what am i talking about what i mean? Man, and drillin Craw. See balance? See balance? DO YOU SEE IT? DO YOU FREAKIN SEE IT? Thank you. CrapStomper 15:41, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, when I waste my time trying to figure out someone's nonsense, it pisses me off. Now for my real post. I don't really think LIllith is overpowered. I've dueled my brother's Lillith a million times and he rarely beats me. And I use Mordekai. It's just a matter of avoiding the damn phasewalk really. CrapStomper 15:45, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
I have been playing a Siren, and i will say she is my favorite so far. I don't know if it's because she's so badass, or because it's my 5th playthrough altogether, including the DLCs. I've even been making use of the blast effect and full-auto combat rifles with her, which I found useless on my Mordecai and Roland. 2K and Gearbox really did a great job in deliniating the RPG-style combat roles. Lilith is definitely a battle mage, Roland is the healer/damge dealer, Mordecai is the theif/assassin, and Brick is the tank. It has seemed a bit easier with Lilith, but after 4 playthroughs, including the Knoxx DLC, I think at least some of that is because I'm just better than I was on my other guys.GT: ConceitedJarrad XBOX360 16:09, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
I was saying she's ridiculously over powered, i just think she has a slight edge. I do see the balance, but Maliwan Hellfire + Firefly COM + ridiculous ROF and phase blast boosts = really good combos. I just think Gearbox didn't realize how awesome she was gonna be... Gunslinga 23:25, March 25, 2010 (UTC)Gunslinga
- Regarding the Hellfire/Firefly bit, I think Gearbox semi-nerfed that by making the Knoxx DLC full of Crimson Lance, who don't take as much damage from a Hellfire as normal bandits/Skags would. Of course, that just changes the setup from Hellfire/Firefly to Defiler/Plaguebearer, but I digress. She's not overpowered. -- 01:00, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
I dont think that Lilith is "overpowered" as much as she has better skill tree opporunities and better weapon combonations. The SMG's are so good on her because of quicksilver and usually already high RoF. The Phase blasts are not as powerful unless you seriously put some points under its belt. Each character balances out in its own ways with its own perks. Lilith then, in my opinion, is not "overpowered". Ancientaura 00:12, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
What do you mean overpowed lilith is over power, if anyone is over powered mordicai is. He specailizes in the two best weapon classes, his bloodwing with bird of prey, predator and swift strike is the best action skill EAVA colesitzy
crapstomper u hurt my feelins dude dont like wat i say dont read it i guess i was kinda confusing so...SpRaYiN LeAd 01:44, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
I would agree that the way most people play with lilith, she isnt overpowered. It seems I am one of the only people who doesn't do the elemental junk. I just used anarchies the whole game and could pretty much kill anything without problem, all you need is a mercenary mod with ammo regen. I currently use a HX 100 Steel Thumper. Does 268x2 damage, combined with a mercenary mod that gives + 56% smg damage, 7 bonus skill points, and +23 ammo regen, and you can kill craw in under 2 minutes.
Ancientaura is right and so is Colesitzy. All of the classes have a specialization to a certain group of weapons: Lilith Smg and Snipers, Mordecai Snipers and Pistols, Roland Shotguns and Assualt Rifles, Brick Rocket Launchers and anything Explosive. If you build to these weapons all of the classes have the potential to do Massive amounts of damage the trick is building and gathering.
Trust me you would surprised just how much damage Roland can put out with 5/5 Assualt Rifles, Metal Storm, Overload, Stockpile, Aid Station and Stat. Combine that with a S&S Draco (Look it up if you don't know what I am talking about), the Serpens, Any Legendary Shock Assualt rifle and the Avenger. You will tear any thing that gets in your way apart.
I am the Keeper of Useless Knowledge ~ Proven Mayhem 12:14, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
@.SpRaYiN LeAd: Hey man, sorry if I hurt your feelings. Sometimes I say stupid shit. I need put a filter between my brain and mouth/fingers. Hope you can forgive brother. Take care. CrapStomper 15:12, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
Lilith is very good as I used her on my first time playing the game and at first started off rather weak but eventually built up after lvl 20 or later with some decent SMGs or Class Mods. I utilized all my points mainly on weapon damage on assassin tree and then some points under the controller tree for her phasewalk for last. She can be overpowered quite a bit with a decent 660 Mercenary or Catalyst Mod which offers +20 or more SMG ammo regen or a 30%+ Cooldown Reduction for her action skill. I did count the time to about 15 sec which is all it took to recharge her Phasewalk ability with a decent Catalyst Mod. She isn't exactly overpowering as she has more shield bonuses than any other character I played with in the game. Omegaxgp 07:35, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
I suppose you guy are right, I just remember using my first high power hellfire and thinking... You mean Lilith can make this BETTER? But she does go through ammo like a bunny on crack, unless you get an ammo regen COM, which isn't on Firefly, so it does balance... Also, Mordecai isn't over powered at all. The only way you can get him to take a hit is with a survivor COM, and that takes away from the damage he can put out. Gunslinga 01:20, March 29, 2010 (UTC)Gunslinger
You know, you can argue that roland is too overpowered with an assault rifle. Lets take an Atlas Ogre for example, add a Rifleman Mod with +45% Rifle Damage, +195% Recoil Reduction, add 5 points into Impact, Assault, and Overload, and right there you add 60% damage, 250% recoil reducton, Huge mags. Minus the incendiary stack damage, and that just as powerful as a Lilith with a Hellfire and Firefly mod. Just my opinion as an avid Roland player. I-Am-Borderlands 01:31, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
Personally, I think each class has it's own perks; Roland hammers bullet after bullet into anything with an ogre until they die, Brick rips people to shreds with his Mongol, Mordecai uses his Cyclops and blows a bandits face off god knows how far away and lilith melts the face of anything that gives her a bad stare. Everyone has their own strong points. It just depends on the playing style. I have used all classes and I personally favour Roland because of his brilliant all round weapon skills with mag increase, bullet damage increase, AWESOME turret and being healed for every kill. I don't like the style of Brick personally as I just don't like up close i.e I use Hunter's Shotgunss for the brilliant accuracy. lbpomg95
I think that out of all of them, they're all useful for what they're meant to do. Mordecai is meant for long range, accurate, high damage sniping. Roland is a support character. Lilith is a hit and run type of character. Brick... He's... well he's a brick... There are ways to solo as each of them and make them really useful, i.e. I use mordecai gunslinger/sniper set up because i can use trespass with any non-elemental weapon and destroy everything with the gunslinger bonuses. The whole reason they're made so different is that when they all work together, they destroy everything if they all stick to there respective purposes. Lilith is overpowered to an extent because her phasewalk makes her invincible, but if she gets overwhelmed by big enemies, chances are she'll get pounded if you dont use the phasewalk sparingly since her weapon choice isnt very powerful against the big guys. but that's just my take on things lol. -Mellodious
Personally I think, minus Brick, gearbox did a remarkable job balancing the classes for PvE and PvP. Take a look at WoW. Talents and abilities need to be buffed and nerfed constantly to keep up with players ability to improvise. Since the release of BL, they've had to do very few changes in comparison. I very much believe that peoples prefered play styles bleed out into there opinion of that class. Most people that play this game like hot manga style chicks and ninja's. Hence a huge Lilith following. Many people feel more comfortable shooting from a distance and the feeling of being an elite few who only need one bullet, hence a large Mordi following. Roland has a turret, and having something shoot for you is fun, (albeit lazy). Brick I might be wrong about, but he seems to me like the Warrior in WoW. You don't play a fantasy game to be a character that's not miraculous somehow, so it seems only 2 types of players use him. Noobs that think the word warrior means powerful, and elitists that are able to realize the classes potential. Conclusively, I think peoples prefered play style affects there judgement on what class appears most powerful. Blastoderm 21:06, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
I think everybody except for Roland is pretty ok. Lilith gets out of situations easily, and can deal some nice phase damage, but after a while like when you are in the near end of playthrough two it becomes useless. Brick, just stays the same the whole game. I personnally like mordecai, not because he is better. Mordecai is no better than brick and lilith, but i got my bird of prey to the maximum, and I am lazy, one bloodwing hit lvl 27=1200 damage and bloodwing can hit like 6 times so it is like 8000 damage. It allows me to kill stupid rakks (not counting mothrakk) really easily. I beat the 5 super OP side bosses: marley, moe, mothrakk, widowmaker, and helob with him. (this is getting off topic but,) I mean once i tried killing helob with a golden rarity (not orange but golden) caustic revolver with red lettering "give sick" and it dealed 20 damage to helob. Roland, in my opinion, sucks (no offense man) because when i tried for the first time sabre turret it was some very crappy thing that dealed like, 3 damage per shot which is crappy. But I don't know about lvl 69 ones, whatever. For mordecai, my sniper is basically a close range primarary weapon. I used to use snipers for sniping, but when i found the "Volcano" with red lettering "Pele demands sacrifice!" which is a sniper that has big AOE and has like 500 fire damage per second. But I never actually snipe except when i fought helob. I think Hellfire SUCKS. My main weaponry is 101101 cannon (eridian tech), an explosive revolver (I forgot name) but its red lettering says "Endless firepower" which means: generate 1.3 revolver bullets per second and the fire rate is 1.6, The GGN470 Volcano, and another weapon i forgot about. Conclusion: Lilith doesn't mean you have to use smg's, Mordecai Doesn't have to snipe enemies, brick i don't know about, and... Roland SUCKS LIKE ****. -Random BL+BL lover.
I only saw one other poster say it: Mordecai's the most overpowered, and it has nothing to do with what weapon he's carrying. Spec'ing Bloodwing "correctly" (which isn't too difficult) grants Mordecai the ability to use nothing but his goddamn bird to annihilate EVERYTHING. Couple that with a Sniper Rifle and Carrion Call, and suddenly you just need to take the occasional pot-shot to keep the Bloodwing orgy going indefinitely. Simply switch up the Elemental effect for various enemy types, and make sure you've got a decent Hunter COM, and it's easy-peasy, no effort or thought needed. -Penance