Created this topic so as to not threadcrap.
Maliwan Hellfire: Overpowered or not? Discuss! Pdboddy 14:44, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
Its pretty undeniable it is. The thing is: Because it is so overpowered its used by many players. And these very players would just whine around if their little baby was patched. To come to the point: You can use a Hellfire in ANY situation. It burns down everything. No matter what it is. On top of that is uses the (itself already pretty overpowered) best element fire. Needs to be patched badly (both. Fire and Hellfire). Cocofang 15:19, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
is it over powered.............. maybe, if you can find one with say 130 damage or more, 80-90's in accuracy,around a 12 fire rate, with a clip size around 36 or above, good reload and a scope of 2.3 zoom then hell yeah, that thing will chew through anything, i would say it is so widely used cause it has all the factors you look for in a good automatic weapon. i feel that the other weapons are very underpowered, combat rifles really a 3 round burst, i mean at high lvls there ok but that means you have to have a great one, not a good one or an ok one but a great one to get by; just like rocket launchers, really the splash damage or blast radiance is a joke, even aiming at the feet of enemies with lvl 50 proficiency and a great launcher the damage isn't all that damaging. the eridean weapons are even more of a joke, repeaters are underpowered as they should be but the rate of fire should be better to compensate, really repeaters can have fire rates in the 2's and 3's the lowest should be around 4 and go up to 8, then let the machine pistols take over. rate of fire is one of the most important attributes it has that plus good damage, good accuracy, a big clip and elemental damage that hits every time. if you think of it any gun that hits elemental damage every bullet is better then most of the guns in the same sect, and in the land of elemental damage that always goes off the highest rate of fire is king. Wylde bil 16:11, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
I agree that its over-powered and agree to everything Wylde Bil said, rocket launchers are under-powered, when you shoot at their feet they are meant to go off flying in bits and pieces, pistols are under-powered too usually in real life situations one bullet in someone’s chest/head takes them down, eridian weapons are fine except the cannon type and maybe the blaster because the cannon damage is probably the highest but it seems very weak for some reason and the blaster should have more damage and accuracy on all except the "ball blaster" model. Cannons are only good for taking out slow, heavy enemies that don't move like those turrets and blasters are only good for fun not combat. Here’s my hellfire (I Have Found About 5 Of These) DMG:127 ACC:83.3 ROF:12.5 MAG:28 TECH:x4 Fire ZOOM:4.3 --User:720M37H3U5
You guys have good logic, and for most enemies, sometimes it seems a little overpowered, but not much (I don't have problems with burning psychos, still find that somewhat odd). For some reason (not sure why) it acts like a normal smg against all the spiderants I try to kill with it, I only got it today, but I had problems against spiderantlings and gyros. I mean seriously, 1 clip killed 2 or 3 of those little maggots. Other than that, yeah, it does seem a little too good. But: does anyone here think the orion sniper rifle is overpowered? I got that today too, and I'm getting one-shot kills all the time except for bruisers and badass' (and still only 3 shots for bruisers).
Not over-powered actually, now say what you want, it may obliterate normal enemies easy, but as soon as a Burning psycho comes in you're screwed through the face up the ass....with an axe. All fire elemental enemies will beat the snot out of you if all you use is the hellfire, that's the balance to it, sure, it's good against almost everything else, but one burning psycho, and say good-bye --ZylotheWolfbane 03:53, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
- I dont really get the logic behind that. As a matter of fact a hellfire is good to kill every enemy except those with fire elemental. Well, how much enemies are there with fire element? Possible 5%? Less? Maybe a little bit more? And because of that very 5% enemies that are immune against fire the hellfire suddenly isnt overpowered even if it tears through the remaining 95%? Cocofang 16:32, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
It's the "Hellfire" feature that makes it sooooo dominating. I've used other non-Hellfire Maliwan SMG's with x4 Fire and they don't produce nearly that same dramatic effect.
BTW, as for Burning Pyschos, shot placement still works. Most have probably been spoiled by a Hellfire's area effect and just hose a target. Just take proper aim and a Hellfire with drop BP's just like any other SMG will. MeMadeIt 06:45, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I think it's not supremely overpowered, but if anything just a very very good weapon. Burning Psychos no problem, one clip can take them from full health as they're running to me.
My gun has 159/93.5/12.5 with a 55-round clip. Hasn't failed me yet. --Nagamarky 08:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
They should be removed from the game, and/or atleast the splash damage and guarateed fire dmg shouldn't exist. You know its bad when half the classes in the game use a hellfire instead of the best weapon they can find for their class because its so much better. Even compared to a comparable weapon it's crazy....
Hellfire vs. Volcano vs. S&S Crux (Best case scenario)
|Eq w/ Element||7500||2860||7062|
|% of Hellfire||100%||~42%||~84%|
Note; Eq DMG = The equivalent damage over the same period of time (DMG * RoF) Eq w/ Fire = (DMG * RoF * 4)
In other words, not even including splash damage and/or DoT (Damage over Time) the Hellfire is insanely overpowered. Those numbers might be reasonable if the gun had crappy accuracy, but with a 90% accuracy you're bound to hit almost everything you hit with a volcano. If you look at the Actual DMG (Eq w/ Fire * ACC%) you're still doing over the double the volcano and more than a shotgun which is basically useless unless you're at point blank range. IMO, Theres no way in hell an SMG should be able to do more DMG than one of the best Shotguns in the game. If this game is supposed to mimic real life scenarios, there are no SMGs that are that accurate. (Ok maybe one, but lets forget about it for the purposes of this argument)
--Doctorgray 08:48, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
well this is just my thoughts but i dont think that the hellfire is over powered for a couple of reasons one sure fire rate is nice but like other fast smgs it burns ammo without a ammo regen mod even then you can still run out of ammo, two it is balanced when used by other classes but sirens in my opinion it is an smg that is too be used by non-siren classes sirens make it over powered i use one on my soilder and it does nothing id rather use an anarchy but i give it to my siren and it for lack of a better term RAPES everything no exceptions even fire enemys so no the gun is not over powered....btw wat does it matter a gun is a gun is a gun there is always gonna one stronger then another so yea...just my thoughts dun kill me on them thx u--The Hunter Of Souls 09:23, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
I got gypped. I have a 18 round Hellfire with 2.6 Fire Rate... But it's got 192 damage and +100%, so maybe I shouldn't complain. But, any goood 8+ Rate of Fire Full-auto combat rifle with at least 150 damage in my Heavy Weapon Guy roland's hands will do pretty much the same thing the hellfire is being described to do here, without needing some silly elemental effect on it. Just sayin' --10:29, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
I'm afraid you have been a little unlucky with that one.. My newest Hellfire HX C has stats: Damage: 230---Accuracy: 90.5---Fire rate: 4.2---V.High Element effect---+110%damage and 18 rounds also. Its worth $837,334 so i'm happy with it :P Funktapus-mk-23 17:09, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
- I'm afraid you both are pretty unlucky. A Hellfire doesn't need high dmg, because the reason you use it is the fire. If you want pure dmg go for a anarchy. But what to you need to get the fire to work? Right: High RoF, decent clip and acc that doesn't suck too bad. But most important is RoF. Every Hellfire under 8 blows ass. And that's already pretty low. -- Cocofang 20:33, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
- I found one situation where a 2.8 Hellfire I found was actually sort of helpful with my Siren. Zombie Island. With a Firefly mod giving +72% Ignite Damage to the Hellfire's ridiculous normal ignite damage, and it being used on those oh-so-flammable zombies...it was effective. I still kept a lower-damage, much higher RoF Hellfire for closer ranges, but this one had great accuracy and was semi-useful for conserving ammo and getting the "Brains" missions done. Still, when a Tankenstein or something showed up, it was obvious that the higher RoF Hellfires are better. -- Claptrap 12:43, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
I've got a hellfire with 155 dmg, 80 acc and 12.5 rof, zombie island was too easy with it188.8.131.52 19:44, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
See, the way I see it, while the Hellfire is very powerful, I would not say it's overpowered. Against normal enemies, it's devastating, but then, any gun you put into my hands will be devastating. I'd rather use the Pestilent Defiler over the Hellfire against Crimson. I'd rather use a nasty-ass shock gun against Sledge (since he's got huge shields) than the Hellfire. The Hellfire, I find, is really great in those duck-and-cover gunsfights, like against Bone Head, or against areas that have tons of Bandits wandering about (Crazy Earl's Scrapyard for instance). For run-and-gun, I'll take my revolvers any day, since I can shoot enemies dead faster than the Hellfire can burn them. Pdboddy 13:54, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
I just flat out banned hellfire from my games, i tell my friends the gun is bugged -Talamare- 19:15, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
It's not over powered. A Merc Siren with a Double Anarchy will do more damage in less time, easily. A Mordecai with a strong revolver and a good build will also blow out a Hellfire. Hellfires suck against anything thats on fire, obviously. They also suck against all Guardians.--GreyRiot 20:07, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
- I believe you're forgetting to take into account the Damage over Time effect that the Hellfire has. Not only does it do a certain amount of dmg right away but it also does DoT. In effect you can shoot enemies to 1/3-1/2 health and then leave them to die from fire. Anarchys dont do this, If you stop shooting them they stop taking dmg. Also, revolvers requires a lot more precision where as a Hellfire is basically spray and pray with radioactive bullets.--Doctorgray 20:39, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
mord with tresspass and hellfire equals crispy eridians Wylde bil 20:48, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
Another thing to take in account is that the hellfire is overused (which i count as another proof it is overpowered). Its not exactly rare (at least thats what i determine if i take a look at other players and on all the hellfires i found myself) and it is (overpowered or not) undeniable extremely powerful. That makes the weapon-usage overall quiet single-edged if you look at it globally.
Everywhere are these typical mainstream Sirens with a Mercenary or Firefly class mod and a hellfire, i just want to punch in the face for being so uncreative. Not to mention i see loads of other classes with hellfires in their hands.
That leads to another point: If you think a hellfire alone is not powerful enough, well thats your opinion (i dont sympathize with but wayne). But if you still think a combination of hellfire + class mod + fitting skilltree is NOT gamebreaking there must be something wrong. There are other powerful combinations but those which involve the hellfire surely are some of the worst. Cocofang 22:43, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
- If you're sick of the Hellfire I suggest playing with a Soldier and/or Beserker.
- Both classes completely redefine the combat you're used to with a Siren. Soldier might not as much if I use combat rifles, but if you use shotguns you'll have to think a bit differently. I suggest a Soldier Build focusing on shotguns and a high dmg sentry w/ health regen. As far as beserker goes I haven't played around with launchers much because the regen is broken on the mod. However, a decked out Brick w/ a Skirmisher Mod and a Melee Build is fun to play with. Keep in mind that if you can't walk to it, you can't touch it, but it's one hell of a build to play with, especially if you're sick of run and gun scenarios.
- Here's a link to some builds which are fun to play w/ if you're sick of the mainstream:
- Brick Build - SUPER PUNCH-OUT
- Commando / Sentry Build -- Doctorgray
- Nice thought but thats not my point. Played all four chars and developed my own way of challenge. I use only one gun-type with every char (only Sniper for example) and try to take underused class mods.
- Anyways ... thats offtopic. My point was that especially hellfire-combos are so overused (and gamebreaking) that it takes so much creativity out of the game. There are just some things in this game that should be readjusted. And the hellfire is clearly one of them. Cocofang 03:13, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Also Doctordray's point doesn't even hold. Building a Hellfire Roland is probably the strongest he can get, which is silly. Don't take assault and use either gunner mod, done. --Raisins 05:19, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Nice thought but thats not my point. Played all four chars and developed my own way of challenge. I use only one gun-type with every char (only Sniper for example) and try to take underused class mods.
doesn't every RPG have something that most ppl see as broken? i really don't know as in the only other RPG i have ever played is fable, but to what i have heard ppl say or read about the RPG genre there is always some class, weapon or ability that is just game breakingly broken. this is the same argument with modded and unmodded. use it don't use it, just enjoy your game. Wylde bil 06:19, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
Of course this gun is overpowered!! It is almost the MP40 of Borderlands!! (COD 5, anyone) Runner up to this gun is yet another flame Maliwan, the Volcano. Neither of these guns can possibly orange rarity because I have three of each on three separate files!! And I have yet to find another Dahl Penetrator, of green rarity... Anyway, the Hellfire is beyond cheap, much like a modded gun - makes the game NO FUN for anyone else!!
Cool, I just found one.
Wouldn't it just be easier when you see it to either don't pick it up, don't use it or if you see someone in your game, just ask them to not use it and if they don't listen, leave or boot them. The gun is a gun. If you don't like it, don't use. I have an SMG right now with 16 RoF with no elemental and I personally think that I can kill an enemy faster with it than I can with the hellfire. But this is just my opinion. To each his own. Minuete
I have found many Maliwan Hellfires i haven't ever wanted to use one before but i forced myself to use it atleast once so i did its alright but...
its overpowered for one i find one with 150 damage with a 18 round clip and a 8 fire rate.
and their fire damage vs. a enemy of the same level without any resistances is relly ridiculous.
but i have a problem of when i use any elemental weapon i find the enemies with the shields that are resistant to the element i am using.
so i tend to use regular guns without elemental effects.Little Deviant 16:16, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
I think one of the things that makes the Hellfire & Volcano stand out is the Guaranteed Proc on the fire. The only other weapons that have it are relatively low RoF (rocket launchers & revolvers w/high-higher-etc chance seem to be GP). If there were high RoF GP (and I lump shotguns into that category) weapons for other elements, they'd be Goddam Impressive too. Come to think of it, one of my characters has a x4 blast sniper with a high probability, and it pretty much always procs. Not my most accurate sniper, but DAMN that's a lot of damage. --I love the smell of NapalmEnima in the morning! 17:56, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
Why does it seem in every single game someone has to whine about something? i went and joined just to point people like you all here out. i'm sure all of you have gotten this before but here something to consider? Don't play the game if its sooooooooooooo unfair dont play it. Simple right? Oh and before i get flamed let me remind you that it is just a game, its for fun right? DECAB149 =)
i partially agree with decab except the way i c it if u dont like something dont fucking use it, i mean seriously its like oo this weapons overkill so we must discuss this for hours and hours and hours trying to debate over wether or not they should make a patch for a weapon practically MADE to be overkill, if u put a always guaranteed element on any weapon for the most part itd be overkill, so just suck it up, you dont like it? dont use it! i mean seriously....Toolazytomakeaaccount 15:45, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
one last thing you people are probly the same people who were arguing about modded weapons, now that has exact same solution, dont play with modders, but likewise what is wrong with u people? i mean really, oooo its modded we must be angry! then u guys say, this items perfectly legit, we must be angry! k, im done.Toolazytomakeaaccount 15:47, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
- That's because the topics overlap at one point: Modded weapons are an equal to cheats and most of them are gamebreaking powerful. The Hellfire is legit but over-the-top-powerful too. If you think about it a sec you'll probably realize, the strength of both is the thing we are arguing about. Strength that is just unrivaled. -- Cocofang 16:33, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
exactly! and why go into a topic that they will not patch or fix when the solution or obvious, dont play with the idiots that use these weapons! i mean they can do anything they want but if no one is going to stop these people then just ignore them, people use hellfires alot because there strong, and people use modded weapons for the same reason, neither of wich are going to be removed or patched.Toolazytomakeaaccount 17:10, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
Now that I've found an Atlas Orge, I rarely use my Hellfire. Indeed, I now only use it to melt super armored Badass Crimson Lance. It's fun to watch them do the 'pee-pee' dance. ;) MeMadeIt 17:12, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
- I agree the ogre is my favorite weapon on my soldier. Well, maybe my ogre and my redemption (yeah for ammo regen). Excluding crimson lance, I find it kills much faster than my firefly siren's hellfire. Freed23 17:39, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
There are a lot of weapons that are "overpowered" if you get the right stats such as a masher, unforgiven, hornet, orion, volcano, firehawk etc. etc. You would be removing a lot of guns if you eliminated the unreasonably powerful ones - so many can be. One of the great parts about farming is finding the unreasonably powered guns! HeartStrong07 17:45, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
- ^^What HeartStrong said. The appeal of the game is the loot. People put a lot of time into finding the best weapons. Finding legenary kick-you-in-the-crotch weaponry is the pay-off. My 1st playthrough of Old Haven netted me 3 Hellfires. I used it like any other weapon and when I found something I liked better, I moved on. I'm not going to get my panties in a buch though if someone else likes it enough to keep using it. It's a part of the game and if someone has an especially powerful version, it's usually the payoff for them having spent a lot of time playing. SkinBasket 20:05, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
The Hellfire destroyed the Destroyer in just about 200 bullets on PT1. Note that the base damage for it was 44. The Flying Fenrakk 22:20, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
I think I`ve changed my mind about this gun. Though I have currently found 5 of these, (These are not the least bit rare) only one of them is actually any good, and it`s a playthrough 1 gun, (Level 28). The other one`s I`ve found are either cursed with bad, damage, low accuracy, or one I found today: a thumper with a fire rate of, like, 2.5!! Bleeeh! In my opinion, the Volcano is cheaper than this gun, (And almost equally unrare; I have 6). For example. Me and my brother played a game on splitscreen and he found a Volcano on level 25, and used it for the rest of the game! That INCLUDES the 2nd playthrough! The only time he switched it out was when he found a better Volcano. And, I tell ya, I`ll be the judge: That gun is effective on anything at any level! However, it does have one flaw that I`ve noticed: If you have Trespass maxed, if the Volcano`s shot does that splash damage blast that it sometimes does, it will not pass through shields... Just a word of warning. Anyway, this is geting way off topic. The Hellfire? Cheap. But not entirely because of it`s stats, but because anyone can get one because it just isn`t rare. The Volcano? Also cheap for the same reason. The only other rare Maliwan gun I have is a level 48 Firehawk which is basically a Volcano for close range. Cheap? Not so much. Just a good repeater. Well, all in all, Maliwan makes a lot of cheap guns, but it`s only really how you look at it. (Though I have NEVER seen a half decent Maliwan shotgun)... Some may argue that a high powered gun like Patton is cheap, (Though I wouldn`t; I love that gun!) I guess I`m really on the line about this one. Tellegro 02:59, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
As much as i love love love this gun i do have to say it is far too overpowered. Flaming psycho's are nothing after a few good headshots and if you have an SMG comm to add damage (as i do :-) it becomes pretty much unbeatable. Matthewrotherham 11:14, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Requests should be put in the Item trading Forum, instead of being put in a 6 month old post.