Talk: Crimson Lance

Crimson Lance Consolidation

I've consolidated this page with that for Lance Engineer, Lance Defender, Lance Infantry and Lance Royal Guard since the latter 4 pages are each so short. This is following the format for Skags, Bandits and the others. The individual Lance soldier pages should be marked for deletion. --Mensahero 08:03, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, Yuck. The Crimson Lance article and individual lance unit articles were the best enemy article format IMO and those other articles would have been better off conforming to the way this one was. Secondly, to the proposal of deletion, no. If this mess is to be retained then those pages should be redirects at the very least. -- WarBlade 09:47, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Why would that format be better? Each individual Lance unit article was very short, practically stubs. Keeping them around would mean people wasting time travelling back and fourth between these very short descriptions and the main page. Such a format also runs the risk of being very confusing or producing dead links in the future. The consensus is that a simpler, more unified format is better (see Talk:Skag). People looking up the information they need should be able to get it quickly and completely with as little navigation as possible. --Mensahero 15:51, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Three people are not a consensus. In fact, there are currently three people who have spoken in favour of retaining the Crimson Lance pages the way they were, and we are by no means any more a consensus than those expressing your point of view.

Why I prefer the Lance page and the individual unit pages is that they are easily searchable for specific data. Consolidating them jumbles everything into one page and has the viewer picking through to find pertinent information. A wiki article is not a documentary on a subject and all matters arising that relate to it. It is one subject in a database of knowledge and once a new subject arises within the root subject a branch is in order. In case case of the Crimson Lance and the Bandit articles there is enough content in the game to sustain separate articles. The only trouble is contributors have not yet fleshed out that content and in the mean time compiling them into lengthy pages including all related matters has created some level of page jumble. -- WarBlade 20:52, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Even if each Lance soldier type is a new subject, there is very little to be said about each. The only real difference between them is this: one is very mobile, one wields a shield and pistol, one drops Scorpios, and some of them paint their armor purple. The only way fill up those individual page with information is to make redundant knowledge that is common to all of them. And in the case of Bandits: there is even more variation among their ranks and yet their individual pages were at maximum length only stubs- there was just not much to talk about beyond their cosmetic differences.

Also, I'm not the only one who prefers consolidated enemy pages according to the Deletion talk page.

Ultimately, if you're that sincere in keeping all these topics separate, then you can begin by re-editing all the following pages: Crimson Lance, Bandit, Scythid, Skag, Spiderant. And don't forget to also set-up and maintain each individual page for each subtype of foe among them. --Mensahero 02:16, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

You're assessment that there isn't a lot to be said about them is a straw man argument. There only needs to be enough to sustain a page and even though they were barely there I believe, as do others, that there was enough already to warrant separate articles. Yes, they were stubs. As such they should be tagged as stubs so that they invite contributors to complete the missing data: Things like location, combat tactics etc have yet to be fully added. -- WarBlade 03:30, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

It's not a straw man argument because there is nothing else to be added to those pages. The "missing" data you mentioned is already present in the main Crimson Lance article. Players don't need to be reminded per Lance soldier type that they have bullet-damage-reducing armor or that corrosive weapons work best on them. In consolidating the page, a lot of redundant information between the main and individual pages can be found and edited out.

The only point in maintaining individual pages is not just because there's enough info to sustain it, but enough specific and unique info to do so. I've already enumerated the differences between each Lance soldier in a few short clauses. Everything else is shared and common between the Crimson Lance as a whole. --Mensahero 06:04, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'll have to disagree with you there Mensahero; stub links at the top of the page are a lot easier way to navigate through sub-topics, as you don't have to scroll down the whole page looking at each title. Also, it is much easier to find information through searches if it has its own page, rather than being made to look through a block topic to find the info.

P.S. Surely the Badass variants descriptions should be included inside their lesser version's information box? I find this will also increase the amount of information on the stub pages from the pittance there was before. --Steel crab 07:40, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Revisiting this topic... The current state of this article bloating to accommodate more and more Lance-related units and additions is causing exactly the kind of thing that I wanted to avoid: A wall of text that is difficult to navigate, particularly through the units. I propose (again) that the troop unit subsection be collapsed back into the links of the style that they were previously in, and any relevant data be salvaged for use in the individual articles. See the Infantry, Engineer and Defender articles for what I'm talking about. At this point it's safe to say the Crimson Lance have become fan favourites and that increases their chances of appearing in more download packs. The list of units and strategies mingling together are may well get longer still, so I think it's time to concentrate on the separate articles more. In some cases there may still be a precedent to group them by archetype, for example the elemental troopers are all more or less the same unit type with one defining feature creating the four distinctions. Those might be something to consider grouping into one article. -- WarBlade 10:52, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Isn't...

Isn't it possible to completely delete pages yourself??, and fusing the Lance page with the original Lance page (if it is out there)? I'll try that right away, wish me luck!

Zombie Version

Shouldn't we add a section for the Lance Zombie (The zombified version in the Zombie Island of Dr. Ned (DLC))? --AleximMose 19:23, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Quotes?

Can anyone decipher what they're saying? I can sort of understand them, but you have to really listen. For instance, one Lance member, upon spotting my character, remarked "This is a military (unintelligible)". If anyone had a lot of spare time/good hearing/a computer program for this sort of thing, it'd be neat to show people what the Lance are actually saying. -- Claptrap 19:30, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Some of the longer ones include;

• "Need Medevac now!"
• "Consider that a warning!"
• "Hostiles incoming!"
• "Suppress that target!"
• "This is your last warning!"

I don't have any of the others handy, ripped or in memory right now. If you have the PC version, google "oggextract.exe" (it's a command line-only app, mind) and run it on .../Borderlands/WillowGame/CookedPC/Packages/Audio/BTLD_Crimson_Lance_01_WAV.upk, that should get you all of the voice files in .ogg format. Most of it is pain/burning/death sounds, but all the voice quotes are in there too.--Marcus Langley 20:45, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Many of the times the lance die from corrsive damage over time, I hear something like "ahharghh, mother****er" Jabberwock xeno 19:35, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

First Encounters, First Impressions

During my very first playthrough I was around level 27, fiddling about with Roland and feeling very cocky. This was before I knew about the Wikia, mind you. Anyway! I had just "investigated" the pile of bodies outside of the airlock into Old Haven and I wasn't impressed. After all, I told myself in my utter confidence, I've made bigger piles than this evne managing a jaunty swagger with my mouse walked, combat rifle, shotty, SMG, and sniper in equipped slots went down the first street.

I spotted a Lance Defender and two Infantry just down the first road on the right. I remember muttering to myself, "goodnight, Daisy" as I took the burst-shot at the Infantry man on the left. Don't ask about the Daisy bit, I'm weird. My blood ran cold when, used as I was to 150+ numbers jumping up in triplicate, I got 42-42-42 and barely a tick had been taken off the health bar... and the Defender shot me an explosive revolver. Or, at least I think it was revolver because I went down in a single shot and was suddenly in a desperate fight for my virtual bank account.

I lost.

Respawned, got out an incendiary helix launcher and made desperate work out of the trio. That they died screaming was little consolation, my mind was made up, "These are the worst goddamn enemies I've EVER FACED!"

The rest of the mission(s) was spent with jangled nerves and jumping at every sound that was even remotely like an opening door or a scrabbling scratch. This didn't save me from running into an alley while a Badass engineer was in hot persuit where he could gun me down. Twice.

Eventually, I became so pissed off that out of spite I went for ye-olde-nutshotte with my glorious havoc and to my surprise, it did full damage AND caused flicking effects. Now, I know you've all been through that, but think about what it was like for ME... These well-armed, well armored juggernoughts that killed me three times were vulnerable... to being shot in the dick.

"These are the best goddamn enemies I've EVER FACED!" TrollofReason 07:36, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

I was a little intimidated at first too. Then I happened upon the combination of Shock Trooper Class Mod and Krom's Sidearm. I cleared out the whole sector to farm the weapons with that wacky little pistol. GRPeng (talk) 21:44, October 19, 2013 (UTC)

AI bug with elemental Badasses caused by Roland's Turret?

This is something that I only recently noticed, but a couple of times when fighting a Badass Shock Trooper with the turret out, its backpack will detonate, but won't harm the Badass. The Badass then proceeds to bumrush me into melee range, but not attack me. It's not so bad when it's just the Badass, since it doesn't do anything other than beg to get shot in the face point-blank, but it can be a problem when there are other Lance still up and shooting at you. For those who might try to replicate this, I tend to have a point in the Homing Missile skill, as well as an explosive element attached to the turret. Both times I've had it happen was up in the ghost town in Road's End where you do the Bugged mission (irony). I don't know if these were just isolated incidents, but it just strikes me as odd to have something with a gun run up to my face and do nothing else. StarPilot 23:14, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

The Machine gun/Combat rifle trivia stament

"Contrary to the glory shot of various Lance soldiers holding Machine Guns (Also note these Machine Guns have a sight they cannot use as, well as lacking a manufacturer material), the Crimson Lance Infantry in fact does not use Machine Guns, their weapon of choice instead is the Combat Rifle."

Is there any proof that this is the case, like programmed spawn rates? It seems the oppsite to be true in my game, anyways. Jabberwock xeno 19:38, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

Badasses

It says in the article that there are Badass Combat Medics. I haven't seen one myself. Can anyone post a picture? I'll keep searching. Auntarie 05:50, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Borderlands 3: "But are they still the Lance?"

Can it really be said Atlas Forces we see in Borderlands 3 are truly the Lance reborn? I'd say there are several indications in the game that Rhys new Atlas did not revive the old name or identity of the Lance, not completely anyway.

Most of the echo references directly to the Crimson Lance are generally negative, such as Typhon Deleon calling them a "new feather" to Atlas hat or Markus directly in reference to the old Atlas "chasing it's crimson tail" being gone in favor of Rhys new atlas.

All of the allied troopers we see defending on Promethea are named game as "Atlas Soldiers" not "Lance Defenders" and such.

More specifically, the majority of trooprs don't even have the old and distinct shoulder pauldrons (the new shoulder guards just say "ATLAS" and kinda look like solar panels).

I will admit we do see the Atlas Troopers manning the small laser turrets with Crimson Lance logo on their shoulder. But it is possible this could either be an oversight of the model design, or Atlas just reusing some old gear.

The game gives the overwhelming impression that Rhys is trying to reform Atlas into something new. Rhys has for all intents and purposes moved the company away from the old identity. There isn't any more Greek nomenclature for weapons or claims of Atlas being "The Power of the Gods". I do believe the new Atlas Forces in borderlands 3 are not a revived Crimson Lance but simply the Atlas security forces using similar helmet designs.

They certainly aren't using scorpio turrets, ballistic shields, or Devastator mechs anymore. And during the Atlas defense mission, on the radio they even refer to themselves as "Atlas Forces" rather than "Lance"