Kreig the Psycho release date

Does any one know when this class will be released?OOaxlOo321 (talk) 06:14, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Supposed to be sometime in May, along with the level cap increase, UVHM and Pearlescents. Lavisdragoon (talk) 06:25, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

The level cap increas comes April 2nd and Krieg come in May →Awesome← (talk) 12:56, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Skill Trees

So, does anyone know if the info on the skill trees is legit or just wishful thinking. I didn't see anything from the PAX panel, but it seems a bit early for some of this stuff to me. SilverCommando (talk) 15:23, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Some of the skills can be seen by pausing the "6 minute krieg gameplay video" on IGN, while some of the others can be found in reviews of the PAX panel Immariel (talk) 17:08, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Just want to back up Immariel's comment. I went through the video and the skills listed, just to see if it was correct Martin Schou (talk) 11:34, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Self Immolation

Took me a while to figure out why you would want to set yourself on fire, then I read that the cooldown for Buzz Axe Rampage is reduced when you take damage. Also, bandits can't catch you if you're on fire.

Mech-Romance (talk) 02:05, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yep. Krieg's designed to be what you hate most about various types of psychos, with hellborn focusing on what makes burning psychos a pain in the ass. Lavisdragoon (talk) 10:45, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I honestly can't interpret if the second part of that was Mech-Romance saying something about mechanics, or if it's a (funny but insignificant) meme reference. Beyond the damage-means-less-cooldown bit, was there something more to that which we should consider? DamianDavis (talk) 19:10, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Mostly meant to be funny, had nothing to do with the mechanics. But on the topic of mechanics, I'm excited to have another tank class. I hope Krieg has some kind of taunt like Come At Me Bro, goes Buzz Axe, slaughters everything, soaks up some damage, then Buzz Axe again. My only concern is how Fuel the Rampage (You can be damaged by teammates, taking 50% friendly fire damage, less 5% per level. +20% cooldown reduction per level when taking damage; additional +20% per level when taking Health damage.) will interact with Restoration. Which will take precedence: friendly fire, or Siren's healing fire? Mech-Romance (talk) 19:28, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Why not both?

It'd be nice if you could light other enemies on fire by meleeing them while you're burning... Well, maybe we'll be able to do that!

I'm going to have fun playing through the Firehawk cult arc with Krieg...

Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 19:43, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

What the hell is Krieg holding?!

So, looking at the second picture on the Krieg page, it seems that he is holding a new weapon. Perhaps this is a new Seraph or Pearlescent machine gun to be added in the future? It appears to be a gun directly based off of the concept art for Bandit machine guns. Zerobit4 (talk) 01:48, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

...It's just a normal Bandit LMG. I doubt it's anything special. Lavisdragoon (talk) 02:22, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

To my knowledge, the barrel and camo are not currently in the game. (Possibly other parts as well) That doesn't seem very normal to me. Zerobit4 (talk) 02:32, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe not, but they just don't announce things like that. Never have. They announce new rarity classes and the occasional returning item (i.e, the Cobra), but that's as far as they go. They try to leave discovery up to the players. At least that's my interpretation of it. Lavisdragoon (talk) 02:38, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

The gun he is holding is the same LMG that was used for pre-release images of Bandit weapons. The only difference between the weapon Krieg is holding and the one on the Bandit wiki page is that Krieg's doesn't have a scope. Considering that image is supposed to be a generic Bandit weapon, it is extremely doubtful that it is some secret new special weapon, especially given how generic it looks. MartyMaraudy (talk) 15:09, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Does he have a twitter yet?ClydeMarshal (talk) 09:26, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Look what I found

File:2013-04-18 00002.jpg
Found this from a vendor in Sanctuary.

Edit: derp forgot the sig.

(TornMosaic (talk) 18:59, April 18, 2013 (UTC))

Sign yer posts, mate. Yeah, Psycho items have started appearing. I found a Sickle class-mod earlier; I ditched it, though. Couldn't use it. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 18:54, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

The Sickle mod's funny with its bright-coloured pop-(wait for it)-sicles.Skittery (talk) 18:00, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

I stumbled across a couple of heads and skins and figured until Krieg gets his own skins page (my wiki-fu is weak) and I don't know if you want to go original character format or Gaige format so I'll leave these here for someone to add.
Skin - Mine Mine Mine Mine - dropped by Creepers.
Head - VideoGameFace - dropped by Creepers.
Head - I Hear Your Blood - dropped by killing Geary
LordShaft666 (talk) 08:59, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Krieg Skillset incoming

'lo folks. Considering the video got nuked and I still had it open in a window, I'm currently going through the motions of copying everything down to a text document. I'll do my best to not mangle the main page and add in the skill descriptions. If I do, I apologize - I'm not wholly familiar with Wiki editing. If there are any takers who would like the raw text dump to do it themselves to ensure quality, please let me know and I'll pass it along. Kithrixx (talk) 20:48, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

Gotta go do stuff instead of stick around and convert the forum post to wiki format. I left a link to the skill descrips in the page itself - sorry for not doing it myself, but again, not wholly confident that I'll be able to update the page and not break it horribly. Kithrixx (talk) 23:19, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

So much damage reduction

How exactly works damage reduction in Borderlands 2?

I ask because Krieg has many skills with huge amounts of reduction. Take for example his "Release the Beast" and "Numbed Nerves". Both may give +50% damage reduction. Then there are also relics and shields, which reduce damage further.

Will the reductions stack before reduction (which would mean absolute damage ignorance with the above mentioned skills) or will they be taken off the original damage 1 by 1? And which will take priority?Leafless (talk) 19:03, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

I don't actually have an answer for you, because I don't know for sure. But it's worth pointing out that many of the other mechanics which operate on percentages are inverse linear functions (e.g., Y=1/(1+X) for reductions). Individual bonuses of the exact same kind in the code will always stack; similar but not identical kinds could have either additive or multiplicative interaction, no way to know without testing.
TLDR, I seriously doubt you can turn yourself into a damage-immune Juggernaut. Summed damage reduction probably looks like this. DamianDavis (talk) 07:18, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

Krieg Quotes

Heres a vid with a bunch of his quotes.

BigBrother1984 (talk) 06:00, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Using a couple of programs I have found and extracted all of Krieg's Quotes and listened to them. I will add to his page when I get the chance, which will probably be later today school (College) permitting. 

Zaelocke (talk) 08:24, May 5, 2013 (UTC)


Snowskeeper looks like he was being sarcastic about brick (totally agree with taking out the tiny tina "similarities" that someone thinks is there) but the Diehard page gives a strategy that may be not unlike something Kreig might use. Final signature 08:47, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Possible background?

So, after watching the quote video linked above, I came up with two possible theories on who Krieg was before he was experimented on by Hyperion. 1. Tiny Tina's father. HIs internal voice mentions looking for a she a lot of times. We all know TIna's parents were victims of slag experimentation from the Wildlife preserve and maybe, despite what Tina thought, her father survived her escape, but lost his mind because of the slag experiments or something. Also would explain his mask covering up his left eye normally.

2. Some random mercernary. His inner voice also mentions getting paid many times as well and his love of loot. He could of just been a mercenary that crossed Hyperion and Jack decided to run experiments on him for some reason.

Theese are jus tmy thoughts though and could be completely off. Just wanted to share. SilverCommando (talk) 12:40, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

I actually had a theory posted on Krieg's background section a while back. I admit it was all speculation (which i forgot isn't allowed anywhere but talk pages), but there was some strong evidence to support my theory. Go check it out if you have the time. DocRedgrave (talk) 04:12, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Fuel the rampage X Restoration

The one thing that really bugs me is how the hell are they going to make this combination work? Will the siren's bullets remain with their effect and give a double bonus (healing + skill cooldown for Krieg), or will investing in "Fuel the rampage" just make Krieg appear as an enemy, thus damaged when shot by Maya despite her active skill? 4n631 (talk) 05:18, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Another potential issue.  Many of Krieg's abilities revolve around simi-intentionally dropping into FFYL (as in not so much trying to but rather not putting much effort in avoiding it, anyway).  How often are sirens going to screw up dynamite-throwing runs by phaselocking friendly Kriegs out of FFYL before they can do much damage?  Just seems like this could be an issue when playing with strangers, heh.  Chuckmoney (talk) 05:46, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
It's probably more simple than you think. I have a mechromancer with a maxed out blood soaked shields skill and captian blades otto Idol. whenever I get a kill it adds the 7.1% health from the idol and then subtracts the 5% form blood soaked shields (I'm never at max health but it beats having most of it gone). Krieg will probably work the same way adding the 30% from the Restoration and then taking out the damage. As for the Res most people should realize your on a rampage and only revive you if it doesn't look like your gonna kill anything. If they don't should you really sweat it anyway? It's still a revive.K1ngf0x4 (talk) 19:03, May 3, 2013 (UTC)  
@K1ngf0x4 I like the way you think, but i'm afraid this won't be the case as Restoration is already bugged. If you haven't noticed - when you shoot your rocket launcher at a teammate to heal them and there is an enemy within the blast radius, that enemy receives the healing effect as well as your friend. Therefore if the game is uncapable to make one shot have both healing and damaging properties I don't think your theory will match the case, unless they patch up Restoration, which I highly doubt. 4n631 (talk) 09:38, May 4, 2013 (UTC)
Honestly I never use Restoration (preferring to save my ammo for the bad guys) so I didn't know about the gltch. It's still possible that they will patch it but if not one skill may just take precedence over the other and honestly thats still not so bad. If the siren wins you get healed and keep going if the psycho wins you get a cooldown rate bonus. its win/win eitherway (unless her shot kills you but then you'll go on a dynamite throwing rampage or get Res'ed so you're still good lol).K1ngf0x4 (talk) 20:12, May 4, 2013 (UTC)        
In the latest news they revealed Restoration will win out. hope that helps.K1ngf0x4 (talk) 20:56, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
To be clear: in the latest news they also revealed that Restoration will Fuel The Rampage as well. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 16:20, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
Also about that point of sirens taking kreig out of FFYL i dont think that can happen. look at his skills and you will see that FFYL is replaced with light the boom and he can move normally. As such i don't think he can be revived in light the boom.
Samster628 (talk) 08:09, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Flame Flare on 7 or higher

I am a bit uncertain, but wouldn't this skill on level 7 (possible with the "Slayer of Terramorphous"- and the "Torch"-class mod), cause burn effects to go on indefinitely, due to the fact, that the chance for a followup burn effect is 105%? This seems especially powerful with the Hellfire-SMG and its stacking traits.Leafless (talk) 06:49, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

For some reason, I see this as a separation between elemental damage and the elemental DOTs they could spawn. Take a terrible through mediocre DOT proc weapon, and move it just a little closer to the consistent proc of a HellFire. Say one proc becomes two simultaneous procs, for example. Because the alternative you propose (which is the only other one I can think of) is that any burn effect you were originally responsible for simply re-applies itself indefinitely, and is now exponentially longer, and that's game-breakingly idek.
I don't have a solid argument as to why Flame Flare shouldn't trigger itself indefinitely past a certain level, except the one where the beta testers would never possibly have missed the implications and the dev team would never possibly have allowed it. I just find it highly unlikely. DamianDavis (talk) 11:21, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
More than likely they'll have some kind of hidden break-off like it can only re-apply once per effect or something like that. similar to how  a mechromancers Fancy Mathmatics skill can be over raised enough to
make your shield recharge delay -119% and yet it isn't always recharging.  K1ngf0x4 (talk) 16:07, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
Mechromancers Fancy Mathematics is a totally different case. The full effect could theoretically only apply fully if the healthpoints dropped at 0 (which is actually impossible to use), but if the effect was over 100% a full cancel-out can happen.Leafless (talk) 16:44, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
I admit the skill is one of those "up to" skills but the full effect comes in at around 5% not 0%. All I am saying is that they will have put some sort of limiter on the skill so it won't be OP. And no I have never seen a full cancel out only a very short delay. Eitherway it will probably be nerfed in someway.K1ngf0x4 (talk) 20:32, May 6, 2013 (UTC) 
Adittionally you forget two things 1: it only works for burn damage so your S.O.L. for enemies resistent to fire. 2: There is nothing stating WHICH burn effect; So your dream of of burning your enemies to death could turn out to be your nightmare of purpetually being on fire.K1ngf0x4 (talk) 21:04, May 6, 2013 (UTC)  
Ok I looked into an unofficial skillbuilder (like said unofficial, but it might explain the way of the developers around it)...only the self-burn duration increases with putting more skillpoints into Flame Flare while the 15% of the followup burn-effect are capped at this number.Leafless (talk) 06:39, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

The unknown Girl or Woman

So, as we know now, Krieg sometimes talks about a "She" who he helped escape from some unmentioned place. We know that Krieg was experimented on in a lab somewhere on Pandora, and at the moment, the only place known to have done experiments like that was the Wildlife Exploitation Reserve. I would like to think that Krieg in his current state is Tiny Tina's father after being subjected to Slag experiments, and that this "She" is Tina. I think it would be cool if when you meet Tina, Krieg's inner voice would recognize her, but his violent side would shut him out by screaming or something. I would really enjoy it if this were true, but it is highly doubtable due to the fact that there are probably Slag Labs all around Pandora, but a man can hope can't he! Haruko2 (talk) 05:03, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Currently the feeling I got when I was looking around at the videos about him is that the vast majority of people agree with you on this subject. IF the female he's referring to is a character we already know, which it may not be, it's either Tina (very likely) or Gaige (much less likely).
The reasons that it could be Tina are fairly obvious so I'm gonna go ahead and explain Gaige's reasons quickly. First, the inner voice sounds a bit like her dad's. Second, it doesn't really make sense that his story kind of got dropped off at the end of Gaige's video series; Tiny Tina's parents, meanwhile, could easily both be dead. Third, from what we know about Gaige's father, he reaaaally doesn't seem like the kind of person to just ditch his daughter--he might have followed her to Pandora, gotten caught by Hyperion once he landed (his distraction likely wasn't legal) and experimented upon. Maybe he was even sent to Pandora from the planet they were living on beforehand and experimented upon after.
I'm... Honestly not sure whether it was the Wildlife Preserve or not. It probably is, but we never actually see any underground portion to it, and the intro video says "deep beneath Pandora" pretty clearly.
I still believe Krieg's the father of Tiny Tina, but hey, might as well prove there are other options! Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 11:58, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
That's pretty much what I was saying above. Though I never thought of Gaige as being the she Krieg is referring to, but admittedly, it does make sense when explained. Sadly, we'll probably never really know but it's still fun to speculate.
SilverCommando (talk) 12:32, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
Hows about tiny T's dad got moved underground after the escape at the WEP. To be honest though i just think he was a random vault hunter before all this happened to him. (Unsigned; left by Samster628)
You bring up some good points, Snowskeeper, but as you said, it is much more likely to be Tina's father. The person above me did bring up the point that her parents might have been moved underground after Tina escaped from the WEP, and that would make alot of sense to move the people they were experimenting on after a security breach such as that one. Haruko2 (talk) 21:40, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Franken Bill anyone??   Dr. F    Chemicalweapon   Wordpress shovel   Boston globe bullhorn  10:26, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

I never actually thought about the possibility of being Gaige's father, but given his more than badass way to save his daughter, it might be possible. Also Krieg states, that he chased someone on Hera. This doesn't seems to be related at 1st, but...Tiny Tina's father is a born Pandorian for sure, due to the fact, that no one who can leave this planet would raise his child in this place. Gaige's father on the other hand (with his more than badass escape plan) seems like a person, who might have been a headhunter in his pre-father life. But there is also another way for him to be related to Tiny Tina...he simply helped her to escape from the Hyperion lab as a fellow captive, but wasn't as lucky as her.Leafless (talk) 06:31, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
He's been confirmed as a mercenary; the chances of him being a scientist (IE Tiny Tina's father) are suddenly shrinking. It's in one of the commentary videos; I'll find it later. You can find it linked on his twitter feed. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 23:50, May 11, 2013 (UTC)
After playing through Hammerlock's Headhunter DLC, my theory is that the woman Krieg speaks of is Dr. Samuels (the faceless NPC heard in the Doctor's Orders mission).
  • Jack put her in charge (against her will) of studying slag-mutation on humans.
  • Krieg recalls "psychopathic purple liquid" poisoning him (Eridium slag, obviously) and repeatedly mentions a female cutting into him.
  • He knows that the assassin sent after him in Hammerlock's Headhunter was part of the staff who rounded him and other test-subjects up so "SHE could start the party".
  • Krieg mentions "The tiny one and the sad-faced mother" in Moxxi's Headhunter. As a test-subject, he would likely have met Tiny Tina and her mother as fellow victims of Hyperion's research.
Based on this, I believe that Dr. Samuels was the one who set Krieg loose as her way of apologizing for what she did to him and he repaid the favor by helping her escape. Given how Krieg gets a apology letter in the tone of his deranged psycho-speak from "Sammy" (Jack's nickname for Dr. Samuels) at the end of the Headhunter DLC, however, I guess that she didn't make it and was made into the victim of her own research as punishment (something that Jack threatened her with). Maetch (talk) 20:55, August 23, 2014 (UTC)

Dr. Sammy is entirely possible and plausible. Not confirmed but there. Anyway, there is more than one woman in his rantings. This would explain much, but not all which is very problematic for a wiki. I think Gearbox is laughing at us... Final signature 00:13, August 24, 2014 (UTC)

Knockin' on Deaths Door

Been looking Krieg's skills and as cool as they are they don't really offer much in the way of healing. Instead they mostly leave it up to his action skill; Which is fine for most of the game but what about soloing Terramorphous or speed running through Ult. Vault where getting a kill isn't so easy? Are we supposed to just use certian equipment to keep up his health or  should we always have someone to watch his back? I'm all for the Blood of Terramorphous and the Neogenator, but I was kinda hopping to take advantage of some of his skills with the Rough Rider and a Tenacity Relic. K1ngf0x4 (talk) 23:57, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

I'm planning on the same abuse of The Rough Rider too. But for the bigguns like * The Invincible, remember that these guys are working with fat health pools: any of Krieg's skills that work on Bloodlust will crank up to 100 very quickly, and stay there until one of you is dead. DamianDavis (talk) 00:57, May 8, 2013 (UTC)
sure withing seconds you would have a hundred stacks easy, but theres no bloodlust skill that'll keep you alive for someone like Hyperius. I like the idea Davis, but the only damage increasing bloodlust skills require you to kill something first and no bloodlust skill involves healing. K1ngf0x4 (talk) 15:35, May 8, 2013 (UTC)
I saw this almost immediately as well; it looks like players won't be able to pull a Mania/Hellborn build if they plan to play solo against bosses like whatever that last boss in the Torgue campaign was. The Bloodlust stuff will (hopefully) help with that (maybe), though.
Oh well, melee is awesome so it's nice to have a new character with melee as a focus! Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 16:43, May 8, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah I'm counting down the days to his release (6 as of today); I guess I'll have to just outfit him with as much healing eqiupment as possible for the heavy-hitters and hope for the best LOL.K1ngf0x4 (talk) 17:49, May 8, 2013 (UTC)
Yep, death is your friend for Krieg apparently. As for healing, he does have the Meat Class mod. That's some health regen right there. Also in his Hellborn he recovers health based on Elemental Empathy level. Though that might just be a cancling of fire damage to you. Well when he's released we'll all know. If anything he should be ace for normal mode. MythicShadows (talk) 03:19, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Backstory Video

At about 10:00, they mention that a video to explain Krieg's backstory will be coming out 'soon.' Presumably 'soon' means 'this weekend,' considering his release date. 

Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 21:51, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Or not. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 17:33, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

They mentioned it again in the latest Inside the Box article. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 15:32, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

A wild video appears! Youtube, I choose you! --Azaram (talk) 03:55, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

New Krieg Launch Trailer

pretty sweet

BigBrother1984 (talk) 03:50, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

when will krieg be released in australia

the title says it all OOaxlOo321 (talk) 07:27, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

If they haven't said a different release date, either you're getting it at the same time as everyone else or you're not getting it. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 16:21, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Bloodlust Stack issues?

So, is anyone else not getting Bloodlust stacks when they damage an enemy? Unless I'm doing something wrong or misunderstood something, but I'm not seeing Bloodlust stacks poppingup when I shoot an enemy. Anyone else having thhis issue? SilverCommando (talk) 20:52, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Have you invested in the proper skill? Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 21:06, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
Yes. I have points in both Blood-filled Guns and Blood Twitch. Still nothing. SilverCommando (talk) 21:17, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
Um... Is your machine turned on? *I have no clue; sorry* Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 21:19, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
Lol. It's okay bro. Thanks for trying at least. SilverCommando (talk) 21:24, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
(EDIT) Figured it out. I needed more than one point in each skill. Getting them now. SilverCommando (talk) 22:13, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Initial creation bug?

I found this when i was just starting up my Krieg, anyone else get this? I was able to chane the skin and it was fine, though. The title for the skin is "Salvador's Duds". Slasher99999 (talk) 21:52, May 14, 2013 (UTC)



Is 'Inflammable' bad?

Haven't gotten my Krieg to a high enough level to really delve into the Hellborn tree, but I'm wondering: do shields with  'Immunity to Burn damage' work against Krieg? Since you can't set yourself on fire, do they prevent Krieg from getting his Hellborn bonuses? Mech-Romance (talk) 02:38, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I'd like to know this too I haven't had much experience with shields besides the bee / hide of terramorphous, a few spike shields earlier then that, does inflammable prevent the dmg or does it full on prevent you from bursting into flames?ClydeMarshal (talk) 03:14, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, Inflammable shields prevent Krieg from receiving any Hellborn bonuses related to being set on fire. Dämmerung 03:41, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Hellfire >>> Hellborn

Since Hellfire applies stacking flames, does it also cause stacks of fire to accumulate on krieg through the self immolation abilities earlier in the tree?

Borderlands 3

Krieg's quote "The prince of justice and genocide has something to say: Gone are the days of the tentacle and the age of the gods' mercy is far away...We are the fighters of the middle, the second act in the three-part MEAT play, AND I WILL WIN BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR!" may be a hidden spoiler to Borderlands 3.

  • "Gone are the days of the tentacle..." refers to The Destroyer and so Borderlands 1.
  • "...We are the fighters of the middle, the second act..." refers to Borderlands 2 as the 2nd part and the "We" in the sentence may refer to Krieg and the other Vault Hunters.
  • "..., the second act in the three-part MEAT play, ..." finally suggests that there will follow a 3rd part of Borderlands and "...the age of the gods' mercy is far away..." may give a hint on the theme of Borderlands 3. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leafless (talkcontribs)

It's possible, however, that this is a reference to the Eridians and a mysterious future era, and has absolutely nothing to do with Borderlands 1 and 3. Krieg says the age of the gods' mercy is far away, and considering that the Destroyer lived outside of the Vault for all of ten minutes, it's not exactly fair to claim that Borderlands was the 'days' of the tentacle.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Snowskeeper (talkcontribs)

Your additions are speculative at this and therefore should not be added to main namespace. -- WarBlade (talk) 21:05, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
The quote "Bad song and horrible award winning movie!" quote, does anyone have an idea what it might be referencing? JackMcGee (talk) 04:48, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
"the second act in the three-part MEAT play" suggests that there will [be a third game in the Borderlands franchise; "the age of the gods' mercy is far away" may be hinting at its theme.
—I have a lot of hopes riding on this speculation.  nagy   talkScorpio-fulllog     10:07, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Hay I know I'm late for this but he also says "AND I WILL WIN BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR!" which could mean He will appear in BL3 as an NPC like the original Vault Hunters from BL1 in BL2 making Him a "supporting actor". --Beast of burdenKrieg maniatier6-releasethebeast Release the beast! 19:03, July 4, 2014 (UTC)


Hey here's a queston, who else thinks Testament - More Than Meets the Eye is a quite fitting song for Krieg? JackMcGee (talk) 22:27, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Well that's a very metal question. I'll answer it like this:
--WarBlade (talk) 13:01, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

A Meat Bicycle Built For Two

The sound you hear right now is the sound of a thousand MayaxKrieg fanfics being written Dr. Feelgood (talk) 00:40, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Fans can write whatever they want, as long as it doesn't plague the mainspace article, we'll be fine. CrackLawliet (talk) 01:02, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Krieg's Buzz Axe

Does anyone know what his Melee damage is when he is at level 61?Volcannon (talk) 08:27, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

Given that he can onehit almost anything at level 30, I shudder to think what his melee damage is at level 61.  It'sKRIEG (talk) 03:06, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Buzz Axe Rampage and the 'hard flinch' reaction

Has anyone had a problem with Assassin Rouf or other uniquely named enemies not stumbling when throwing a buzz axe at him during Krieg's Buzz Axe Rampage? I never really noticed it until I got to UVHM, and I'm noticing it a ton now because I happen to be stuck on Rouf. I bring this up because according to Paul Hellquist adding the "hard flinch" reaction is what makes Buzz Axe Rampage actually fun to play and not a crap action skill that lets you die every time you try to use it. He made no mention of whether it was an automatic reaction, though, so is it possible that certain enemies have a higher or lower chance to resist the hard flinch? KiraKodera (talk) 07:42, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Fuel the Rampage x Bore

If Krieg has "Fuel the Rampage" and Zero shoots through him with "Bore" do enemies still recieve the damage bonus?

Juman92 (talk) 16:15, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Only one way to find out. SteamID: villagereaver

Villagereaver (talk) 17:42, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

The fourth wall

I do not want to be the sole author of the trivia section, but I am not the editor to start the section about Krieg breaking the fourth wall with quotes. I saw the correlation and added to it.

Since there has been several opinions on this, we should take it to this talk page to discuss details.Final signature 23:37, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

It's fairly obvious that the reason Krieg is referencing them is because he's completely nuts.  There's no reason for any of the others to mention it, because none of them have to scream out every thought that crosses their mind.   He's not breaking the fourth wall, he's just crazy. It'sKRIEG (talk) 02:50, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Also, you removed several other beneficial edits to the page when you undid my post.  Would it not have been more expedient to just edit it and re-add the removed section, or else wait til the issue had been resolved here? It'sKRIEG (talk) 02:58, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

My opinion differs as to the obvious reason. To my mind, Krieg was greatly made for entertainment value and lives up to that stereo-type. I believe much of Kriegs personality is to make us laugh.

The role-playing elements of gun levels, damage, ROF, and skill icons are for players. Kriegs quotes that include these elements are to make us laugh, not to imply that the characters see icons or numbers. In terms of role-playing, characters would know who looks stronger (in terms of strength stats for other games), what gun is heavier, which gun has a scope, which gun is to crazy to handle right now, who has the ability to heal, etc.

The numbers tied to gun stats are for players to determine, at a glance, which gun may be better without testing every gun. Players still need to test for gun sway, gun recovery and such but, in role-playing terms, characters would need to test every gun to determine its effectiveness.

To tie numbers to violence and skills to icons is definitely relating to what the player knows, rather than what the character knows. Final signature 07:27, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

You're assuming the menu and the icons are only being seen by the player.  They aren't, as evidenced by the fact that you can see other players looking at the menu from an in-universe standpoint whenever they open the inventory in multiplayer mode.  As for his personality being to make us laugh, he can do that by directly referencing the skill trees and inventory screens.  Again, this does not mean he's breaking the fourth wall, it simply means he's insane and is screaming out whatever thought happens to be in his head when he sees them.

As for you assuming every character automatically knows which gun is better by touching it, that's just silly.  By that logic, your character will assume some random White-rarity revolver is equal to or better than a Green-rarity revolver that looks similar to it and weighs the same.  It'sKRIEG (talk) 15:46, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

What? I didn't say that. I stated what a character would know about a gun, and that the character would have to test every gun to know its effectiveness. Look, I am just going to make a point and get on with other things cause I can see that this is going nowhere.

Characters have weapon slots (game mechanic) that we can see on the characters (one on the back, one in a hip holster, etc) that represent the slots that we players know as 1,2,3,4. A new character "Maya" can pick up the starting gun, find another gun and have to "consult" her HUD device to change the new gun to slot 1 (we know this because claptrap gave her a HUD device and we see her do it in multiplayer). NO, that is what the player does... the character would simply switch out the guns.

A little later Maya gains enough experience (levels, another game mechanic) to use her main skill in combat/Pandora situations. We know from her Echo's in the Wildlife Exploitation Preserve that she already knows how to use the skill that she was born with as a siren.

Now your saying that she needs to "consult" a HUD and "pick an icon" because claptrap gave it to her and we see her doing it. NO, that is what the player does... the character simply is experienced enough to use her skill in combat. Krieg definitely breaks the fourth wall with a couple quotes.

I am, quite frankly, surprised that anyone would be upset about this. The Borderlands franchise has, historically, not taken itself seriously. The game reaches across into our world several ways. Unless the characters have cell phones wrapped up in their HUD display, QR codes are there for players. Then you have Creepers... unless they were digistructed from an alternate universe.

I personally think it is rather cool, but that's just me.

Note on HUD: In multiplayer, players are informed that other players are in a "MENU" when we can clearly see that the character is in a HUD... The HUD is just a cleaver device to give menu's to players that can explain a whole lot, but not everything (sci-fi is like that though). Final signature 07:42, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

If we're guessing here (which we are), I'd say that the Echo exists, the ability for the characters to review quests (jobs) exists (they'd note them down, obviously, and they wouldn't necessarily have the same info in them, but it wouldn't make sense for them to not keep a list of them), and the ability to review weapons info (such as damage, (assuming health is a thing that matters in-game, and yes there is reason to question that as in Meat Bicycle for Two Krieg instagibs every single one of the Rats), R.O.F., etc.). Maybe class-mods are a thing; grenade mods probably are (digistruction is a thing, so the grenade mods do make sense). New-U's are DEFINITELY NOT A THING as verified at various points by people inside and out of the game (the bloody New-U's themselves say they aren't things, in TT:AODK). Am I missing anything? Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 02:07, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

The New-U's in Tiny Tina's DLC play themselves down because they are obviously technological elements in a fantasy world. They've never said anything like that in either of the main games. And the Hyperion ads you hear when being resurrected are in-game, since other players can hear them as well. I don't think the DLC should be counted as part of the main game.

Gaige breaks the fourth wall in the same way as Krieg, with several of her quotes; 'Numbers numbers, math math math' and 'Show me the green arrows!' are the only two I can remember offhand, since I haven't played her much. I believe both of these are not actually breaking the fourth wall, as they refer to things in the game. Yes, it says '(foo) is in a menu' when you try and travel... but they're looking at a menu in the HUD. They are not two separate things. Most of the character's inventory is hidden; you see one gun on the back and one on the hip, most times. I can't think of once I've seen all four guns. I personally tend to collect grenade mods for situational uses; over a third of my inventory on Krieg is grenades, and I've got at least six shotguns. Not to mention a couple of rocket launchers, two sniper rifles, two SMGs and four class mods... Where are they? They're hidden in the digistruct 'backpack'. When you buy an inventory expansion, you're buying more storage space in your personal digistruct system. To keep track of what you have in it, you use a menu... that you see in the heads-up display. It's entirely possible that the items are set up to communicate their abilities to the computers that store them, and that the computer can display their differences with red and green numbers and arrows. Life on Pandora changes quickly and you need to know at a glance what's the best thing to shoot the deadly charging Whatthehell in the face with. --Azaram (talk) 16:38, November 17, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I can buy displays for guns. The guns are stored in a SDU pack which (in my mind) is a portable digistruct pack. There is some confusion on who is looking at a menu in the HUD. The player or the character? The game says the player is. Anyway, Maya was born with her ability. What about the display for her "too many icons"? How is the HUD (and the character) tied into the player picking her first skill? In the senario above, there are only 2 guns involved (new game and no inventory) and the player messed up by not holding in the "pick up" button long enough to switch guns. Then the character has to conslult a HUD in order to do so.

I am just saying that the HUD is fun and does explain alot. The quotes the characters say are meant to amuse us and can't be fully explained otherwise. Final signature 19:14, November 17, 2013 (UTC)

The only case of outright breaking the fourth wall is Claptrap talking about the stash. Everything else really can be, without too much trouble, justified in-game. Some of the guns are kept on hip or back, true, but the SDU still needs to 'know' about them in case you switch them out for one of the ones that isn't visible. I can set up four rocket launchers, and it only shows on, slung on my back. The others, since they're too big to carry like that, wait in the digistruct backpack until I call them out as needed. HUD is just 'heads-up display', and exists now in various forms. The menu is displayed in the HUD, they are not exclusive.

The New-U stations are explained in the game as the save points scanning you and digistructing a new body when the previous one is killed. This also explains the 'teleportation' of the fast travel stations, one disassembles you, the other recreates you. They're justified OUT of the game as a game mechanic to make the game more fun, explaining why you reappear. Entirely aside from the skills thing making little or no sense in-world, how do badass tokens work? I do things like shoot 69,105 beasties with a fire gun and suddenly a new skin appears in my pocket and I have a token I can spend to make the otherwise unchanged guns I have more accurate? It might be justifiable as I'm hacking the digistruct backpack to give me slightly better guns... but if I could do that, why not make all of them fire slag exploding rocket grenades that explode in clouds of rabid piranha? There is in-game justification for all of it... but it gets more and more tenuous as you go. Sure, Maya could learn to use her inborn skill better as she uses it... but why can she suddenly decide that instead of it pulling everything toward the one she black-holes, it explodes in a shock explosion? (Or whatever; haven't played her much either, but you should know what I mean) Or Axton can throw a turret that explodes in a small nuclear blast, but with a few seconds at a customization machine, now he can throw two that stick to the ceiling and don't explode.

Or, more in line with the page this is on, why can Krieg suddenly go from turning to a giant indestructable super psycho mutant on limited occasions to pooping out homing balls of fire that attack anything that's damaged him and back with a few bucks spent? There is some fourth-wall breaking going on, but they've done a surprisingly good job of justifying it in game. In Bioshock Infinite, why does the main character have a display for his shield floating at the top of the screen? Because that's what's expected in a game like that. For a game like this, they've done a decent, but not perfect, job of integrating, because there are things the player must be able to do that the character wouldn't be doing. (BTW, note that I am not bitching about you questioning it. :) I just like this sort of thing. ) --Azaram (talk) 19:41, November 17, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. I also like the fact that gearbox doesn't take itself seriously and laughed over Krieg many times in many different ways. Between the comic relief throughout the game and plausibility, they really did a good job. Final signature 17:00, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

Krieg is my favorite character in a game, pretty much ever. Most games, the character is just a walking gun platform with no personality. Krieg is hilarious, one of the few times I've ever actually laughed out loud at a game that involves splashing innards. I've actually gotten killed on occasion from laughing at something that he said so hard that I couldn't keep shooting. Which itself is funny. :D --Azaram (talk) 17:09, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

Bates a reference to Downton Abbey?

Wasn't there info on it being a reference to the Psycho movies, what with the murderer being Norman Bates, and the business of murder being bloody? I haven't seen 'Downton Abbey', so the trivia info is up for debate; this is just what I thought. InfinitysCross (talk) 02:32, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

It's a direct quote from the scene, and it was a pretty memorable moment wherein someone got terminated because they sucked.  That being said, there's no reason to assume Gearbox didn't notice/plan the double entendre.  They're clever people, y'know? Caedon (talk) 05:34, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

If there's a reference that is clearly a reference (IE this) and has two possible meanings, add both to the trivia. If it's just something like GO TO SLEEP, whoever that was, then don't add anything at all. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 02:07, September 12, 2013 (UTC)


I don't want to be that guy, but I really want to be that guy. Can I please edit the quotes section to get rid of all the extra exclamation marks? You really, really, /really/ only need one per sentence. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 02:07, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Krieg's Raving Retribution quotes don't seem to work with the UVH2 DLC pack... AliceLiddellFan (talk) 21:26, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Krieg's planet of origin

If someone can write this in the notes section, please do.

One of Krieg's quotes suggest he is from the planet Hera.

Agamer100 (talk) 23:30, October 17, 2013 (UTC)Agamer100

(If you ever kill an innocent person, I will destroy us.) Shut UP!! (No. That's the deal. You can kill as many of the deserving as you like, but the second your axe touches the flesh of an innocent, I'll end this. All of it. A razor to the veins, just like that fugitive we tried to grab on Hera, remember?) Nnnnngh, get out of my head!! (...I'll take that as a 'yes.')

Is that the one you mean?

Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 23:47, October 17, 2013 (UTC)


Agamer100 (talk) 11:55, October 18, 2013 (UTC)Agamer100

That quote doesn't really prove that Krieg is from Hera, so much as that he's been there.

The Delightful Doomsayer Fire Water Balance cropped Balance in Destruction 12:10, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Yup. It's been stated before that Krieg was a mercenary; he'd be a pretty shoddy mercenary if he hadn't done some travelling in spehss.

Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 13:34, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Translation Error

Tastymeatball has determined that the German translation of "I'VE GOT A HUGE HAND" is in error. It states (in German) "I'VE GOT A HUGE HATE".

It will be noted in the page.

Below are translations into other languages. If anyone knows these languages, could you state what the translation is so that we can note any other errors?

French VOBD Lilac PlayPsycho PL Start BadassTransform 04

Ital VOBD Lilac PlayPsycho PL Start BadassTransform 04

Japan VOBD Lilac PlayPsycho PL Start BadassTransform 04

Spain VOBD Lilac PlayPsycho PL Start BadassTransform 04

Thanks. Final signature 03:13, October 20, 2013 (UTC)

The French also says hate ("haine", pronounced "ane" as in lane) instead of hand ("main"). The Delightful Doomsayer Fire Water Balance cropped Balance in Destruction 06:05, October 20, 2013 (UTC)

New Buzz-Axe Bug?

Has this happened to anyone before?  I didn't see it mentioned on the main page, but I got a weird bug where the

Buzz Axe got embedded into my equipped weapons.  It's actually pr
Borderlands 2 Glitch Buzz Axe Embedded in Weapons 1080p03:52

Borderlands 2 Glitch Buzz Axe Embedded in Weapons 1080p


etty irksome, because it is in front of some scopes (like my sniper).  My Harold's scope is unaffected though, fortunately.  It stuck between transition and weapon swaps, but as you'd expect, it disappeared when I finally reloaded the save.  I posted a video of it up on Youtube.

Bit odd.  Not much about it on the net that I can see.  Saw one set of pics and that was all I could really find.

EDIT:  Ah, I see it is mentioned as a bug on the Buzz Axe Rampage page.  Didn't really think it was 'new', per se, but I'd never seen it before, or heard it referenced. Kage No Shi (talk) 12:04, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

New crazy 'who is he' theory

(At least I hadn't seen it anywhere.) Krieg is related to MISTER TORGUE. They both have the same 'metal plates bolted to their arms' look, although Torgue's is on his right and Krieg's is on his left; they both have pecs with pecs, and BOTH OF THEM SPEAK NEARLY CONSTANTLY IN ALL CAPITALS WITH MULTIPLE EXCLAMATION POINTS!!! --Azaram (talk) 22:52, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

Vague Trivia?

One of the Trivia states that Krieg's buzz axe is Bandit-made and has... green, blue, or purple rarity, was it? I don't know about anyone else, but I had to read this trivia point several times on several different occasions before I finally understood it. (Reading the Bandit manufacturer page helped) Assuming I actually do understand what it's saying, could it be re-worded a little more clearly that the skin of the axe changes depending on what skills he has? Niphanos (talk) 09:44, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

Below is a copy for ease:

  • Krieg's Buzz Axe is Bandit made and has a purple, blue or legendary rarity depending on what skills Krieg has investments in.

This assertion needs a citation. Is it from the game code? How do you tell the rarity of Kriegs axe? Final signature 17:09, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

Like I mentioned, I think what they were referring to is the colours on its skin. It has the distinct colours of each Bandit rarity's skins. I don't know how it's generated, so yes, I believe they need more behind that. (To be honest, I haven't been able to see any but the one in A Meat Bicycle Built for Two, which appears to have the skin of Purple Bandit weapons) Niphanos (talk) 06:27, March 28, 2014 (UTC)

In that case the trivia should include appearance (and be confirmed), such as:

  • Krieg's Buzz Axe appears to be Bandit made and has a purple, blue or legendary rarity apearance depending on what skills Krieg has investments in.

I will do some experiments in co-op when I get the chance. Final signature 14:56, March 28, 2014 (UTC)

This isn't  true. There are certain abilities that affect the appearance of the axe, but it doesn't relate to the Bandit skin rarities. When I finish narrowing down the exact skills and their effects on the axe, I will update the trivia page with that information. I'm wondering where the "Bandit made" portion of the trivia came from as well. I suppose it could be implied by the visual appearance, but is it actually stated somewhere? CuddleTime (talk) 08:52, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

It can be assumed that the "orange" tinge is what people thought was a rarity skin applied. Thanks for the specific effects. "is Bandit made" can be asserted without citation, I suppose. They did carry them in the original BL as well. Final signature 19:05, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

Wasn't there a glitch that enabled people to drop/dupe the buzz-axe?  That might be the origin of the Bandit Manufacture and possibly the Rarity (color) trivia?  I don't know though, since I've never tried to get the axe to drop.  It's a thought though.  Kage No Shi (talk) 16:58, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

What? Final signature 17:43, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Well, that was something people could do.  Glitch the game into allowing them to drop the Buzz Axe.  I would have thought it might reveal manufacturer if there was one, plus the rarity of course.  Here, I found a VideoIt has no name, but it shows Bandit as manufacturer and it's colored, though it doesn't really seem to match a proper rarity type, it looks a bit like faded green in that video, which isn't a rarity color.  Kage No Shi (talk) 18:48, March 31, 2014 (UTC)
It appears to still work on PC. Fun. Can't be put in the bank, though, nor taken out of it if placed there using a save editor. Niphanos (talk) 01:14, April 1, 2014 (UTC)
That is entirely crazy... The rarity is white in that video, according to the "bandit" logo. I have actually seen that card (or part of it) before while messing with Claptraps stash. The core stat over and over again freaked me out and I quickly saved for fear of losing equipment or something. Final signature 10:02, April 1, 2014 (UTC)
Actually, I don't think it's white.  It doesn't match a rarity color in the game.  It's not quite solid white.  It looked slightly green, as I said.  I was wondering if different skills given points might change the color?  Kage No Shi (talk) 10:47, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Doctor Who

Should the rest of Krieg's Doctor Who line sbe added to Trivia? They include

"You're making me giddy!"
"It's the end, but the meat has been prepared!"
"Feels different this time!"
"Carrot juice!"
"No last words for the Eighth!"
"You were fantastic! So was I!"
"I don't want to go!" —Preceding unsigned comment added by JerZey CJ (talkcontribs)

They were added to the trivia. The bureaucrat of the wiki deleted those trivia lines for repeated violation of trivia policy.

Paraphrased (steam) quote: Editors have ignored the clear notice in the trivia section from the beginning of the page creation.

I added to the notice which Dr.F pointedly told me was redundant and I agree with him except it still keeps happening (which is redundant on its own). Final signature 07:22, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

What part of that do they exactly violate? Do you just need a source for them? If not, what makes the current trivia mentioning the "You were fantastic..." line suitable? I can understand if you just don't want all of them taking up space, but then wouldn't it be better to just make one trivia point menitoning that Kreig has several lines of dialogue that reference Doctor who when he loses or wins a duel and becomes crippled? JerZey CJ (talk) 20:34, July 3, 2014 (UTC)
The need for links is partly due to the trivia bloat on the Borderlands Wiki, and partly due to the need to source information. On this wiki we've had a flood of stupid assertions presented as trivia, much of which has been confirmed to be invalid after a quick bit bit of research. So yes, please link trivia. -- WarBlade (talk) 22:48, July 3, 2014 (UTC)
My last edit on the page was an example, in case you needed it. Final signature 00:41, July 4, 2014 (UTC)
OK, fair enough. So either have a direct link to a reliable source(like you did) or have the actual episode title(like the other piece of trivia), then? JerZey CJ (talk) 01:01, July 4, 2014 (UTC)
Not exactly, that other piece of trivia is not linked and can be deleted by anyone at anytime, or it can be linked by another editor to authenticate it. If you would like your trivia (or any other trivia) to stay for sure, it needs to be linked. Final signature 03:00, July 4, 2014 (UTC)


Krieg's audiofiles seem to have gone non-functional. Clicking on them reveals that they no longer exist, apparently. Anyone got any idea what's going on?

Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 19:55, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

That is weird. They link in preview (while editing) and the files are still there. Probably something staff is converting across all wikia. It could also be the catch messing up. Give it a couple days and staff can be contacted if it persists. Final signature 20:55, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

Krieg as the first playable suicide RPG character

I have looked around for a playable suicide RPG character. I obviously cannot search every single RPG in history, play it, and make sure there are no suicide RPG characters to come before Krieg. The conclusions drawn from looking around and extensive knowledge of RPG games is as follows:

  1. Krieg is a totally unique RPG character design, created by Gearbox.
  2. Krieg is probably based on other RPG tank characters.
  3. Krieg is probably based on RPG group tactics that "sacrifice" characters to achieve a goal.
  4. There is no other playable RPG character that includes suicide as a viable tactic within its skill selection (Light the Fuse, Redeem the Soul and Pull the Pin).
  5. Not only is suicide included in Kriegs skill selection, but also self mutilation skills are included within this entire  suicide theme (ingiting on fire, Silence the Voices).
  6. Krieg not only commits suicide and self-mutilates for specific goals but also invites others to the fun with skills that improve Krieg while being damaged (Embrace the Pain, Fuel the RampageSalt the Wound).

I have been told that the burden of proof is on me in this matter because I have not (obviously) researched every single RPG to ever come out in history (and played them to make sure no skills are viable suicide skills).

I disagree with that assessment since research does not bring up any results on committing suicide (as a skill) on any RPG characters. I have also talked to a few people who have played more games (extensively) than I have and they agree.

The biggest point is number 4 above and coupled with number 5 and 6 gives solid evidence to the claim that Krieg is the very first playable suicide RPG character in any game.

This subject is, of course, open for debate and any evidence to the contrary is accepted. Personally, I have not found any other RPG character that has viable suicide skills nor do I know anyone who has. Final signature 22:39, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't call his playstyle suicide as much as "Risk vs. Reward" as depicted in other RPGs. Saying suicide is very narrow as thats basically Borderlands exclusive gameplay where thats truly a factor. And if we were to take the "Risk vs. Reward" stance, he definitely wouldn't be a first. InfinitysCross (talk) 22:52, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

I totally get what your saying. My point is that Gearbox took the "risk vs. reward" a step further into viable suicide skills. And I agree it is because of the unique gameplay of Borderlands that makes it possible. That is why it is a first. Final signature 23:00, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Arguably they're all unique then. You could say Maya is the first multi-element healer. InfinitysCross (talk) 23:02, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Not really, RPG healing characters can take on (multiple) elemental damage of the specific game. "Risk vs. Reward" characters need to have suicide skills in order to be in the same category as Krieg. Speaking of which, Pull the Pin is total suicide apart from the unique gameplay of Borderlands. Have you ever seen suicide skills on other RPG characters? Final signature 23:08, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

If Worms counts as an RPG, then the Kamikaze weapon. InfinitysCross (talk) 23:09, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

An RPG character is the only character you play. This would be committing suicide through skills made for it and re-spawning on purpose. In the case of Borderlands gameplay, it is mostly risking re-spawning which is why it works (most of the time). The gameplay does give the Gearbox team the option to do it.

There are other suicide strategy "controlled" characters, such as "sappers" in Warcraft 2. You can make them blow up to destroy enemy stuff but these characters are not something you play, just control.

I agree that it is a bold statement but, from what I know, it is true. Final signature 23:20, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

One basic rule of assertions about biggest, best, strongest, etc. on wikis: Don't post them. They only last until someone presents a bigger, better, etc. piece of nonsense to replace it with.
Case in point: Playing a Necromancer in Guild Wars, with a skill bar to operate as a "Necrobomber," presents an earlier case than Krieg. -- WarBlade (talk) 04:40, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

Firstly, this is not an assertion of "best" or anything of the sort. It is an assertion of the first ever playable suicide character (with skills meant to down oneself and risk downing oneself repeatedly).

As far as Guild Wars go, I have not played that but have friends that have. I looked up the necrobomber and found this site: [1] which lead me to this U-tube: &list=UULul4pHCtzXigJ8VhNKhJsw&index=2 although I am not sure this is what you mean, I can point out problems with the assertion of the linked build predating Krieg.

Building a "glass cannon" character by choosing to give no vitality or toughness in order to increase damage and stay out of the fight is definitely different than having skill selections designed to down yourself by getting into the fight. Those could be considered suicide tactics (by not going with survivability) and not a suicide character (designed with suicidal skills). Final signature 06:43, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't call any of Kriegs skills skills that are " designed to down yourself by getting into the fight.". All of them seem more like precautions; health is low, heal and get a damage boost with Release the Beast; get downed, have a better chance of getting up with dynamite with Pull the Pin(?); ally is down, get them up at the cost of yourself (No clue what skill name is), but this definitely doesn't mean going into the fight. InfinitysCross (talk) 06:46, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

"Firstly, this is not an assertion of "best" or anything of the sort. It is an assertion of the first..." And as an assertion of "the first" it is exactly "the sort". Please don't post assertions like that. And why bring up glass cannon characters? This discussion has nothing to do with glass cannons. -- WarBlade (talk) 06:57, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
NINJA EDIT: I only used glass cannon because the linked video uses it as terminology. I agree that subjective terms have no place here. I also believe in relaying facts "to the best of our knowledge". Barring a character that forces suicidal tactics onto a player, creating a build to do so is different. Anyway, I found this that gives a better format for giving incomplete/unprovable information. Perhaps it is my approach that is wrong. Sorry guys. Final signature 22:28, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

With the resistance from the community, I have no problem with it leaving the page. The facts remain though and I think the wiki is missing a piece of history because of it.

The list of total suicide skills, for the record:

  1. Downing yourself to revive a friend is suicidal tactics through a skill.
  2. Lighting yourself on fire is a suicidal tactic through a skill.
  3. Receiving damage from friendly fire for skill cooldown and to destroy shields for buffs is a suicidal tactic through a skill.
  4. Self damage to increase damage is a suicide tactic through a skill.
  5. Pressing "E" to blow up and hopefully killing an enemy is a suicide tactic through a skill.
  6. Decreasing normal survivability by increasing shield recharge delay is suicidal tactics through two skills.

Coupled with having "in the event of" triggers:

  1. Dropping a grenade in the event of death through a skill.
  2. Increasing fire rate in the event of zero shields through a skill.
  3. Increasing damage in the event of zero shields (and taking damage) through two skills.
  4. Increasing damage in the event of FFYL through two skills.

I believe that Krieg is unique in that Gearbox made the first playable suicide RPG character. This is because of the unique nature of Borderlands being an RPGFPS and having FFYL mechanism (at the same time).

Krieg can be tweaked to not use suicide tactics in anyway with the level 72 cap, but only if you are playing solo. Otherwise you are lighting yourself on fire, delaying your shield recharge rate, etc.

Playing solo, you may choose Fuel the Rampage to get around the suicidal tactic skills but that goes out the window in a team setting. You still have to choose the "in event of" skills, which are not so suicidal.

But this is a wiki and the community decides the content, not me. Final signature 07:31, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

The only one of the skills listed here that can be considered "suicide" ( actually downing yourself while not in fight for your life ) is reviving a downed friend at the cost of your own life. Even then, you are not forcing a respawn, but simply exchanging places in Fight for Your Life. Your friend then could revive you, negating a respawn. Since this skill can not be used solo, the intent can not be for pure suicide.
The primary purpose is not to use these skills to down yourself, but rather to "risk" a possible downing to gain a "reward". I see where your line of thought is, but the intent of the skills must also be considered.--Veggienatersml 06:25, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with that assessment. It is not to commit suicide, but to keep from committing suicide despite the skill drawbacks. It is suicidal tactics, but maybe that is a bad description. I do know that Krieg is based on suicide psychos so I am unsure what else to call it. Final signature 08:50, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

Like i said, i see your line of thought. However as far as being the first, I know that Dragon Age has the Blood Magic tree and it has been around longer than B. L. 2. It uses the character's Health to cast spells instead of Mana which could cause a death if over used or if the player doesn't heal him/herself. --Veggienatersml 13:07, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the citation. There are so few examples of it. The earliest might be Magic the Gathering (using black cards). Not an RPG but good stuff. Final signature 06:51, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

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